Hobby King turbine!
07-01-2012, 06:04 PM
#76
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RE: Hobby King turbine!
ORIGINAL: erbroens
Sorry guys, this is unavoidable.. some years ago giant scale ARF´s with Chinese engines where unthinkable.
This is just the same.
Anyway, hope that this will bring more people to the hobby, specially the ones with lots of talent and not so much money.
Enrique
Sorry guys, this is unavoidable.. some years ago giant scale ARF´s with Chinese engines where unthinkable.
This is just the same.
Anyway, hope that this will bring more people to the hobby, specially the ones with lots of talent and not so much money.
Enrique
But it's pretty unlikely you will ever get a useful reliable turbine from Hobby King, they are just not up to it, quality and service wise. It's just not in their makeup.
They may sell some of these, I guess it is a prestige item, so they can say they make a turbine, but I would not put my money on anybody putting more than a few hours on one without having to send it back to China.
07-01-2012, 06:08 PM
#77
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RE: Hobby King turbine!
ORIGINAL: LGM Graphix
I guess what I'd want to know more than anything, is who is actually making the engines. No different than any HK products. I don't know, does HK have their own manufacturing facility or is it a case of rebadging product from another manufacture? I don't know, that's why I'm asking, does anybody TRUTHFULLY know the answer?
Lets just say for sake of argument that these turbines were being supplied by a well known manufacture, to HK but they were able to somehow sell them for half the price (maybe the markup is that great that they could, again, I truthfully don't know). If one were to find out that these engines were being made by a reputable manufacture would they become popular?
More likely what would happen is the reputable manufacture would come under fire for selling their name brand products at a higher price instead of their brand X products at a lower price. So would the HK turbine end up selling well, would said reputable manufacture offer custom support or would that fall into the hands of HK? I will say that I have only ordered once from HK and the product was garbage. Yes they said they'd replace it once I shipped my batteries back, but the return shipping cost as much as the batteries. As such I've never been willing to take that risk again. That being the case, for me personally to want to consider an engine I would have to start seeing posts about HK like we see about companies like Dreamworks, nothing but praise . Then I would start to consider them again. It's not so much their product that has me turned off from dealing with them, it's the risk of bad product with no real recourse.
Glen, you're right, tons of people have had luck, and that's great, but for a guy like me, who ordered 2 batteries that were bad right out of the box, that is a 100% failure rate. Makes it hard to want to pull the trigger again on a less expensive product when I know of more expensive products that work. At the end of the day, I consider what part of my investment am I willing to lose? Well, when I built my Firebird, I chose the turbine with the best track record, the one that's been aroung longer than anyone, the one where I have never heard of a failure. There are other good companies out there, but what I had to weigh was, do I want a lifetime warranty, or do I want an engine that I'm more confident that I won't ever need a warranty. With a jet like the Firebird, if an engine fails, I don't just lose the engine, due to the type of airplane, I put the entire airframe at high risk. So in the case of an engine from HK, it comes down to accepted risk, and with my personal experience with HK, I don't want to take those risks.
As I say, it would be really interesting to hear who is manufacturing the engine for them, what are the build specs, tolerances, QC, etc. Then and only then would I even begin to consider one.
I guess what I'd want to know more than anything, is who is actually making the engines. No different than any HK products. I don't know, does HK have their own manufacturing facility or is it a case of rebadging product from another manufacture? I don't know, that's why I'm asking, does anybody TRUTHFULLY know the answer?
Lets just say for sake of argument that these turbines were being supplied by a well known manufacture, to HK but they were able to somehow sell them for half the price (maybe the markup is that great that they could, again, I truthfully don't know). If one were to find out that these engines were being made by a reputable manufacture would they become popular?
More likely what would happen is the reputable manufacture would come under fire for selling their name brand products at a higher price instead of their brand X products at a lower price. So would the HK turbine end up selling well, would said reputable manufacture offer custom support or would that fall into the hands of HK? I will say that I have only ordered once from HK and the product was garbage. Yes they said they'd replace it once I shipped my batteries back, but the return shipping cost as much as the batteries. As such I've never been willing to take that risk again. That being the case, for me personally to want to consider an engine I would have to start seeing posts about HK like we see about companies like Dreamworks, nothing but praise . Then I would start to consider them again. It's not so much their product that has me turned off from dealing with them, it's the risk of bad product with no real recourse.
Glen, you're right, tons of people have had luck, and that's great, but for a guy like me, who ordered 2 batteries that were bad right out of the box, that is a 100% failure rate. Makes it hard to want to pull the trigger again on a less expensive product when I know of more expensive products that work. At the end of the day, I consider what part of my investment am I willing to lose? Well, when I built my Firebird, I chose the turbine with the best track record, the one that's been aroung longer than anyone, the one where I have never heard of a failure. There are other good companies out there, but what I had to weigh was, do I want a lifetime warranty, or do I want an engine that I'm more confident that I won't ever need a warranty. With a jet like the Firebird, if an engine fails, I don't just lose the engine, due to the type of airplane, I put the entire airframe at high risk. So in the case of an engine from HK, it comes down to accepted risk, and with my personal experience with HK, I don't want to take those risks.
As I say, it would be really interesting to hear who is manufacturing the engine for them, what are the build specs, tolerances, QC, etc. Then and only then would I even begin to consider one.
07-01-2012, 06:15 PM
#78
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RE: [Deleted]
Well, turbines are serious technology itens,operate in extreme conditions, i never had good experiences about chinese products and accessories ( landing gear, valves, retracts ), all our jets thatt comes with chinese landing gear are leak on niples and valves; but, the air frames are good, and, improved over time.
BUT, i prefer the products that come from : BVM, RTI, DREAMWORKS, JETCAT, WREN, SKYMASTER ( they changed yours landing gears ), CARF, DURALITE, ELECTRODYNAMICS, JETTECH, SMART-FLY, i use and, never had failure, i never lost equipment and day of flight !!!
SERIOUS HOBBY, NEED SERIOUS MANUFACTURERS!!!
Jose
BUT, i prefer the products that come from : BVM, RTI, DREAMWORKS, JETCAT, WREN, SKYMASTER ( they changed yours landing gears ), CARF, DURALITE, ELECTRODYNAMICS, JETTECH, SMART-FLY, i use and, never had failure, i never lost equipment and day of flight !!!
SERIOUS HOBBY, NEED SERIOUS MANUFACTURERS!!!
Jose
07-01-2012, 06:24 PM
#79
Senior Member
My Feedback: (-1)
RE: [Deleted]
HEY gatorbait2 just joined rctruth it is great and the info on HK and Banana Hobbies is great and you can call it what it is and dont get booted for calling china junk china junk it is what it is more guys need to wake up and read rctruth all the complaints and credit card fraud agianst HK anyway thanks again
07-01-2012, 07:13 PM
#80
RE: Hobby King turbine!
Finally sombody else not afraid to speak out about bruce simpson! I know him personally and what you have wrote is exactly the man he is.
ORIGINAL: gatorbait2
Sorry, but Bruce Simpson, also known as Xjet, and RCmodelReviews, is not a superb engineer, or an unbiased reviewer.
He is a paid employee of Hobby King, and he received this engine for free.
He makes his money from the stuff he gets for free from Hobby King, and from the money he makes from his Youtube videos, mostly promoting HobbyKing stuff.
He just lost his field for his club, with his glory hunting stunts.
The NZ Jet community cannot stand him.
He has a long history of ripping people off, selling pulsejet engines and plans, and never delivering them.
He declared bankruptcy once before, for not paying taxes.
And no matter what happens, he is never at fault, just ask him.
He lost the field for his club, and it's a bunch of "Fun police" who feel he is a "tall poppy" and want to cut him down.
I'm sure a bunch of HobbyKing fanbois will report this post and get it removed, oh well.
You can read more about the truth of Bruce on rctruth, they have no sponsors there, they say the truth there.
ORIGINAL: DominicM
I think HK have done a smart thing by sending it to the RCModelReviews chap. Based on all his other work we can be fairly sure he'll give an unbiased view of the unit and what it can do. Think I read he's a first time turbine user but he's a superb engineer. Price will dictate how well these sell. Looks to me like it would fit in a large 90mm/120mm EDF jet.
I think HK have done a smart thing by sending it to the RCModelReviews chap. Based on all his other work we can be fairly sure he'll give an unbiased view of the unit and what it can do. Think I read he's a first time turbine user but he's a superb engineer. Price will dictate how well these sell. Looks to me like it would fit in a large 90mm/120mm EDF jet.
He is a paid employee of Hobby King, and he received this engine for free.
He makes his money from the stuff he gets for free from Hobby King, and from the money he makes from his Youtube videos, mostly promoting HobbyKing stuff.
He just lost his field for his club, with his glory hunting stunts.
The NZ Jet community cannot stand him.
He has a long history of ripping people off, selling pulsejet engines and plans, and never delivering them.
He declared bankruptcy once before, for not paying taxes.
And no matter what happens, he is never at fault, just ask him.
He lost the field for his club, and it's a bunch of "Fun police" who feel he is a "tall poppy" and want to cut him down.
I'm sure a bunch of HobbyKing fanbois will report this post and get it removed, oh well.
You can read more about the truth of Bruce on rctruth, they have no sponsors there, they say the truth there.
07-01-2012, 07:36 PM
#81
Senior Member
My Feedback: (-1)
RE: [Deleted]
everyone should go to rctruth.com and read the shrill list hell all these guys praising HK are working for them hell if that aint calling the kettle black and HK has over 400 BBB claims against them and have been banned from ebay for ripping people off , now you just keep buying from them LOL LOL LOL
07-01-2012, 07:45 PM
#82
RE: Hobby King turbine!
ORIGINAL: gatorbait2
They tried many times to hint on their own forum that the engines or their parts were really made by Jetcat. But they lie a lot, HK do.
ORIGINAL: LGM Graphix
I guess what I'd want to know more than anything, is who is actually making the engines. No different than any HK products. I don't know, does HK have their own manufacturing facility or is it a case of rebadging product from another manufacture? I don't know, that's why I'm asking, does anybody TRUTHFULLY know the answer?
Lets just say for sake of argument that these turbines were being supplied by a well known manufacture, to HK but they were able to somehow sell them for half the price (maybe the markup is that great that they could, again, I truthfully don't know). If one were to find out that these engines were being made by a reputable manufacture would they become popular?
More likely what would happen is the reputable manufacture would come under fire for selling their name brand products at a higher price instead of their brand X products at a lower price. So would the HK turbine end up selling well, would said reputable manufacture offer custom support or would that fall into the hands of HK? I will say that I have only ordered once from HK and the product was garbage. Yes they said they'd replace it once I shipped my batteries back, but the return shipping cost as much as the batteries. As such I've never been willing to take that risk again. That being the case, for me personally to want to consider an engine I would have to start seeing posts about HK like we see about companies like Dreamworks, nothing but praise . Then I would start to consider them again. It's not so much their product that has me turned off from dealing with them, it's the risk of bad product with no real recourse.
Glen, you're right, tons of people have had luck, and that's great, but for a guy like me, who ordered 2 batteries that were bad right out of the box, that is a 100% failure rate. Makes it hard to want to pull the trigger again on a less expensive product when I know of more expensive products that work. At the end of the day, I consider what part of my investment am I willing to lose? Well, when I built my Firebird, I chose the turbine with the best track record, the one that's been aroung longer than anyone, the one where I have never heard of a failure. There are other good companies out there, but what I had to weigh was, do I want a lifetime warranty, or do I want an engine that I'm more confident that I won't ever need a warranty. With a jet like the Firebird, if an engine fails, I don't just lose the engine, due to the type of airplane, I put the entire airframe at high risk. So in the case of an engine from HK, it comes down to accepted risk, and with my personal experience with HK, I don't want to take those risks.
As I say, it would be really interesting to hear who is manufacturing the engine for them, what are the build specs, tolerances, QC, etc. Then and only then would I even begin to consider one.
I guess what I'd want to know more than anything, is who is actually making the engines. No different than any HK products. I don't know, does HK have their own manufacturing facility or is it a case of rebadging product from another manufacture? I don't know, that's why I'm asking, does anybody TRUTHFULLY know the answer?
Lets just say for sake of argument that these turbines were being supplied by a well known manufacture, to HK but they were able to somehow sell them for half the price (maybe the markup is that great that they could, again, I truthfully don't know). If one were to find out that these engines were being made by a reputable manufacture would they become popular?
More likely what would happen is the reputable manufacture would come under fire for selling their name brand products at a higher price instead of their brand X products at a lower price. So would the HK turbine end up selling well, would said reputable manufacture offer custom support or would that fall into the hands of HK? I will say that I have only ordered once from HK and the product was garbage. Yes they said they'd replace it once I shipped my batteries back, but the return shipping cost as much as the batteries. As such I've never been willing to take that risk again. That being the case, for me personally to want to consider an engine I would have to start seeing posts about HK like we see about companies like Dreamworks, nothing but praise . Then I would start to consider them again. It's not so much their product that has me turned off from dealing with them, it's the risk of bad product with no real recourse.
Glen, you're right, tons of people have had luck, and that's great, but for a guy like me, who ordered 2 batteries that were bad right out of the box, that is a 100% failure rate. Makes it hard to want to pull the trigger again on a less expensive product when I know of more expensive products that work. At the end of the day, I consider what part of my investment am I willing to lose? Well, when I built my Firebird, I chose the turbine with the best track record, the one that's been aroung longer than anyone, the one where I have never heard of a failure. There are other good companies out there, but what I had to weigh was, do I want a lifetime warranty, or do I want an engine that I'm more confident that I won't ever need a warranty. With a jet like the Firebird, if an engine fails, I don't just lose the engine, due to the type of airplane, I put the entire airframe at high risk. So in the case of an engine from HK, it comes down to accepted risk, and with my personal experience with HK, I don't want to take those risks.
As I say, it would be really interesting to hear who is manufacturing the engine for them, what are the build specs, tolerances, QC, etc. Then and only then would I even begin to consider one.
07-01-2012, 08:30 PM
#83
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RE: Hobby King turbine!
Well the fact is only time will tell on this turbine. It will be interesting to see were this hobby is in 3 years. There will always be the nay sayers and the people who support the products because of good experiences. If the company is such crap then I'm sure it will be out of business next year as why would people continue to shop there? According to the outspoken people here, it doesn't make sense because all they sell is "crap". And when people give good reviews or experiences, they must be shills or working for Hobbyking. *rolls eyes*. LGM you had bad luck and you felt burnt for it. I can understand your feelings on that. If it had been the same situation for me I would have done the same thing.
07-01-2012, 08:35 PM
#84
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RE: Hobby King turbine!
I gotta agree with this post... The trouble with an HK turbine, even if it ends up being well designed and built and reliable, is that it will lower the barrier for people to start trying to fly turbine airplanes. That is the risk to the hobby - that there will be people without the committment or experience... or money to do things right - that one should have to fly one out there buying and flying them.
On HK specifically, I have had very good luck with them and I'm overall very happy with my purchases from them. A few items that were truly junk, but more often I've been very pleased with what I bought. And, considering the prices, I've saved a lot of money - and would have saved a lot of money even if the rate of getting junk items was 3x what it has been. If it wasn't for inexpensive options - mostly HK, but also a few other Chinese shops - I definitely wouldn't have gotten into the hobby as much as I have. It wouldn't have been worth the investment to me... but having the option to buy cheaper products has opened the door to the hobby to a lot of people. I look at HK's prices and set my expectations for support accordingly... I don't even bother trying to return a motor that fails prematurely, because I bought 2 each of 2 differnent similar motors from them for the price it would have cost to buy a single motor from a local hobby shop.
On HK specifically, I have had very good luck with them and I'm overall very happy with my purchases from them. A few items that were truly junk, but more often I've been very pleased with what I bought. And, considering the prices, I've saved a lot of money - and would have saved a lot of money even if the rate of getting junk items was 3x what it has been. If it wasn't for inexpensive options - mostly HK, but also a few other Chinese shops - I definitely wouldn't have gotten into the hobby as much as I have. It wouldn't have been worth the investment to me... but having the option to buy cheaper products has opened the door to the hobby to a lot of people. I look at HK's prices and set my expectations for support accordingly... I don't even bother trying to return a motor that fails prematurely, because I bought 2 each of 2 differnent similar motors from them for the price it would have cost to buy a single motor from a local hobby shop.
ORIGINAL: smperry
Hobby King...you pays yer money and ya takes yer chances. You either end up loving them or hating them.
What interests me is the effects ''affordable'' turbines may have on our hobby, be they from HK or somebody else.
Will this increase the odds that an unfortunate incident might close a field to turbines or have an even broader negative effect?
Idiots and yo-yos seem to be spread fairly evenly throughout all demographics. A rich fool is as subject as a poor fool to do something inadvisable with a jet model. So on that account it's a wash.
Someone trying to get a jet in the air on the cheap may be tempted to take other monetary shortcuts with the build or the radio gear. I know many highly responsible modelers who are forced to be budget conscious, but i have seen some modelers who take saving a buck to the extreme and whose models are less than safe as a result. So will inexpensive turbines run up the odds of an unfortunate incident? I'm afraid the answer is yes to a degree.
That leaves it up to local clubs to ensure new turbine pilots get proper training and that proper safety practices, including inspections, are strongly promoted.
sp
Hobby King...you pays yer money and ya takes yer chances. You either end up loving them or hating them.
What interests me is the effects ''affordable'' turbines may have on our hobby, be they from HK or somebody else.
Will this increase the odds that an unfortunate incident might close a field to turbines or have an even broader negative effect?
Idiots and yo-yos seem to be spread fairly evenly throughout all demographics. A rich fool is as subject as a poor fool to do something inadvisable with a jet model. So on that account it's a wash.
Someone trying to get a jet in the air on the cheap may be tempted to take other monetary shortcuts with the build or the radio gear. I know many highly responsible modelers who are forced to be budget conscious, but i have seen some modelers who take saving a buck to the extreme and whose models are less than safe as a result. So will inexpensive turbines run up the odds of an unfortunate incident? I'm afraid the answer is yes to a degree.
That leaves it up to local clubs to ensure new turbine pilots get proper training and that proper safety practices, including inspections, are strongly promoted.
sp
07-01-2012, 08:36 PM
#85
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RE: Hobby King turbine!
ORIGINAL: downunderdog
I gotta agree with this post... The trouble with an HK turbine, even if it ends up being well designed and built and reliable, is that it will lower the barrier for people to start trying to fly turbine airplanes. That is the risk to the hobby - that there will be people without the committment or experience... or money to do things right - that one should have to fly one out there buying and flying them.
On HK specifically, I have had very good luck with them and I'm overall very happy with my purchases from them. A few items that were truly junk, but more often I've been very pleased with what I bought. And, considering the prices, I've saved a lot of money - and would have saved a lot of money even if the rate of getting junk items was 3x what it has been. If it wasn't for inexpensive options - mostly HK, but also a few other Chinese shops - I definitely wouldn't have gotten into the hobby as much as I have. It wouldn't have been worth the investment to me... but having the option to buy cheaper products has opened the door to the hobby to a lot of people. I look at HK's prices and set my expectations for support accordingly... I don't even bother trying to return a motor that fails prematurely, because I bought 2 each of 2 differnent similar motors from them for the price it would have cost to buy a single motor from a local hobby shop.
I gotta agree with this post... The trouble with an HK turbine, even if it ends up being well designed and built and reliable, is that it will lower the barrier for people to start trying to fly turbine airplanes. That is the risk to the hobby - that there will be people without the committment or experience... or money to do things right - that one should have to fly one out there buying and flying them.
On HK specifically, I have had very good luck with them and I'm overall very happy with my purchases from them. A few items that were truly junk, but more often I've been very pleased with what I bought. And, considering the prices, I've saved a lot of money - and would have saved a lot of money even if the rate of getting junk items was 3x what it has been. If it wasn't for inexpensive options - mostly HK, but also a few other Chinese shops - I definitely wouldn't have gotten into the hobby as much as I have. It wouldn't have been worth the investment to me... but having the option to buy cheaper products has opened the door to the hobby to a lot of people. I look at HK's prices and set my expectations for support accordingly... I don't even bother trying to return a motor that fails prematurely, because I bought 2 each of 2 differnent similar motors from them for the price it would have cost to buy a single motor from a local hobby shop.
ORIGINAL: smperry
Hobby King...you pays yer money and ya takes yer chances. You either end up loving them or hating them.
What interests me is the effects ''affordable'' turbines may have on our hobby, be they from HK or somebody else.
Will this increase the odds that an unfortunate incident might close a field to turbines or have an even broader negative effect?
Idiots and yo-yos seem to be spread fairly evenly throughout all demographics. A rich fool is as subject as a poor fool to do something inadvisable with a jet model. So on that account it's a wash.
Someone trying to get a jet in the air on the cheap may be tempted to take other monetary shortcuts with the build or the radio gear. I know many highly responsible modelers who are forced to be budget conscious, but i have seen some modelers who take saving a buck to the extreme and whose models are less than safe as a result. So will inexpensive turbines run up the odds of an unfortunate incident? I'm afraid the answer is yes to a degree.
That leaves it up to local clubs to ensure new turbine pilots get proper training and that proper safety practices, including inspections, are strongly promoted.
sp
Hobby King...you pays yer money and ya takes yer chances. You either end up loving them or hating them.
What interests me is the effects ''affordable'' turbines may have on our hobby, be they from HK or somebody else.
Will this increase the odds that an unfortunate incident might close a field to turbines or have an even broader negative effect?
Idiots and yo-yos seem to be spread fairly evenly throughout all demographics. A rich fool is as subject as a poor fool to do something inadvisable with a jet model. So on that account it's a wash.
Someone trying to get a jet in the air on the cheap may be tempted to take other monetary shortcuts with the build or the radio gear. I know many highly responsible modelers who are forced to be budget conscious, but i have seen some modelers who take saving a buck to the extreme and whose models are less than safe as a result. So will inexpensive turbines run up the odds of an unfortunate incident? I'm afraid the answer is yes to a degree.
That leaves it up to local clubs to ensure new turbine pilots get proper training and that proper safety practices, including inspections, are strongly promoted.
sp
07-01-2012, 08:45 PM
#86
RE: Hobby King turbine!
ORIGINAL: Pepperpete
Well the fact is only time will tell on this turbine. It will be interesting to see were this hobby is in 3 years. There will always be the nay sayers and the people who support the products because of good experiences. If the company is such crap then I'm sure it will be out of business next year as why would people continue to shop there? According to the outspoken people here, it doesn't make sense because all they sell is "crap". And when people give good reviews or experiences, they must be shills or working for Hobbyking. *rolls eyes*. LGM you had bad luck and you felt burnt for it. I can understand your feelings on that. If it had been the same situation for me I would have done the same thing.
Well the fact is only time will tell on this turbine. It will be interesting to see were this hobby is in 3 years. There will always be the nay sayers and the people who support the products because of good experiences. If the company is such crap then I'm sure it will be out of business next year as why would people continue to shop there? According to the outspoken people here, it doesn't make sense because all they sell is "crap". And when people give good reviews or experiences, they must be shills or working for Hobbyking. *rolls eyes*. LGM you had bad luck and you felt burnt for it. I can understand your feelings on that. If it had been the same situation for me I would have done the same thing.
To my surprise a lot of people feel it's ok for HK to offer poor service because they have low prices.
07-01-2012, 08:46 PM
#87
RE: Hobby King turbine!
Well I tend to agree for the most part as well, but it almost sounds like you guys are going a little far. The next step I'm gonna hear is that the AMA should require a Psych Evaluation and Financial Statements as part of the waiver process. What ever happens id going to happen no matter what... The is an old saying " You can't protect an Idiot from himself " and " A fool and his money soon part "
Danno
P.S. And down here in my part of the world, there is one more... The two most famous words spoken by white trash... "Watch This !!!!!"
Danno
P.S. And down here in my part of the world, there is one more... The two most famous words spoken by white trash... "Watch This !!!!!"
07-01-2012, 08:51 PM
#88
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RE: Hobby King turbine!
ORIGINAL: David Jackson
Good luck with the HK service. I have purchased a number items from HK, edf planes, prop planes, and motors. I have only receive two items, both escs, that worked perfectly out of the box. Everything else had damaged, and took it HK a minimum of one month to address the one issue that was finally resolved. Maybe their turbine will be fine, but do you really want to take a chance on the service/support provided for the engine. DO YOU FEEL THAT LUCKY! If so, maybe you can suggest some winning lottery number, LOL. [8D]
Good luck with the HK service. I have purchased a number items from HK, edf planes, prop planes, and motors. I have only receive two items, both escs, that worked perfectly out of the box. Everything else had damaged, and took it HK a minimum of one month to address the one issue that was finally resolved. Maybe their turbine will be fine, but do you really want to take a chance on the service/support provided for the engine. DO YOU FEEL THAT LUCKY! If so, maybe you can suggest some winning lottery number, LOL. [8D]
My fleet currently includes, 10 HK 450 size helicopters.. all flying perfectly, some almost 2 years old with over 700 flights...
1 x HK Spitfire.. cost me $69 bucks and has OVER 1000 faultless flights in 2 years..
Dozens of Turnigy and Nano Tech and Zippy batteries.. all PERFECT, except one that had a poor cell, but that was a single bad one in over 50 perfect batteries..
I have purchased 5 LiPos from LHS at a cost of around $50 - 80 each, and all of them have failed within 50 flights.. puffed, wires come loose, lack of power compared to Turnigy Batteries...
For me its a no brainer.. my experiences with HK have been virtually perfect and I don't waste money on batteries that cost 5 times more but are inferior.. only a fool would do that..
450 Helis and Foamies are a far cry from a Kero Turbine though..
07-01-2012, 08:57 PM
#89
RE: Hobby King turbine!
ORIGINAL: downunderdog
I gotta agree with this post... The trouble with an HK turbine, even if it ends up being well designed and built and reliable, is that it will lower the barrier for people to start trying to fly turbine airplanes. That is the risk to the hobby - that there will be people without the committment or experience... or money to do things right - that one should have to fly one out there buying and flying them.
I gotta agree with this post... The trouble with an HK turbine, even if it ends up being well designed and built and reliable, is that it will lower the barrier for people to start trying to fly turbine airplanes. That is the risk to the hobby - that there will be people without the committment or experience... or money to do things right - that one should have to fly one out there buying and flying them.
have the privilege of owning a turbine rc aircraft. One thing to remember if a poor person buys a turbine and crashes his plane he may not get another one or
it could be months before he does, OTOH there are the well to do that can putfive or more turbines in the ground in one year and still buy more.
07-01-2012, 08:59 PM
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RE: Hobby King turbine!
ORIGINAL: topspin
As far as I can see the only people who will buy these motors are the ones who shouldn't even have one. And no liability when they get hurt.
As far as I can see the only people who will buy these motors are the ones who shouldn't even have one. And no liability when they get hurt.
Small 450 Helis and foamies are one thing.... a kero sucking turbine is another...
07-01-2012, 09:03 PM
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RE: Hobby King turbine!
ORIGINAL: Pepperpete
Well the fact is only time will tell on this turbine. It will be interesting to see were this hobby is in 3 years. There will always be the nay sayers and the people who support the products because of good experiences. If the company is such crap then I'm sure it will be out of business next year as why would people continue to shop there? According to the outspoken people here, it doesn't make sense because all they sell is ''crap''. And when people give good reviews or experiences, they must be shills or working for Hobbyking. *rolls eyes*. LGM you had bad luck and you felt burnt for it. I can understand your feelings on that. If it had been the same situation for me I would have done the same thing.
Well the fact is only time will tell on this turbine. It will be interesting to see were this hobby is in 3 years. There will always be the nay sayers and the people who support the products because of good experiences. If the company is such crap then I'm sure it will be out of business next year as why would people continue to shop there? According to the outspoken people here, it doesn't make sense because all they sell is ''crap''. And when people give good reviews or experiences, they must be shills or working for Hobbyking. *rolls eyes*. LGM you had bad luck and you felt burnt for it. I can understand your feelings on that. If it had been the same situation for me I would have done the same thing.
07-01-2012, 09:54 PM
#92
RE: Hobby King turbine!
ORIGINAL: Bill G
No different. There is a bit of a conflict, in that the type of person to appreciate a turbine is the type of person to be a dedicated and experience builder who has extreme attention to detail. This is quite different than the wave of RTFers out there today. Likely someone will get upset about me making that comparison, but the point is that things like turbines are generally not for weekend ''out of the box'' warriors. If you wanted to move the hobby forward, you would have to first go backward to when people invested some real time and effort.
ORIGINAL: Pepperpete
Well the fact is only time will tell on this turbine. It will be interesting to see were this hobby is in 3 years. There will always be the nay sayers and the people who support the products because of good experiences. If the company is such crap then I'm sure it will be out of business next year as why would people continue to shop there? According to the outspoken people here, it doesn't make sense because all they sell is ''crap''. And when people give good reviews or experiences, they must be shills or working for Hobbyking. *rolls eyes*. LGM you had bad luck and you felt burnt for it. I can understand your feelings on that. If it had been the same situation for me I would have done the same thing.
Well the fact is only time will tell on this turbine. It will be interesting to see were this hobby is in 3 years. There will always be the nay sayers and the people who support the products because of good experiences. If the company is such crap then I'm sure it will be out of business next year as why would people continue to shop there? According to the outspoken people here, it doesn't make sense because all they sell is ''crap''. And when people give good reviews or experiences, they must be shills or working for Hobbyking. *rolls eyes*. LGM you had bad luck and you felt burnt for it. I can understand your feelings on that. If it had been the same situation for me I would have done the same thing.
And finally, one VERY valid point no-one has pointed out!! The average "hobbyist" now-a-days is all about the best bang for the buck for the least amount of effort. Arf's are great, don't get me wrong, but when people start complaining about their new "Arf" not having directions on how to do something as simple as aligning the tail section to the fuselage/wing or how to locate the motor on the firewall, serious issues arise.. Now, give this guy the opportunity to purchase a turbine and a jet "arf" from one of the chinese companies (and their lovely directions) and the domino's are quickly stacking against his (and the hobbies) favor in him doing it correctly and safely.
This whole HK turbine debate has NOTHING to do with anyone's financial status or personal "right" to own a turbine. It has EVERYTHING to do with us being able to continue this segment of the hobby that we all love and enjoy. Yes many here come across with the elistist attitude, but you know what, I bet all of those guys would have highest financial impact if they were to lose the ability to fly turbines. There are many reasons why we are all worried about this HK turbine, but Safety is the biggest reason!
While I wish the HK turbine the best, we can only plan for the worst and hope we are all wrong if and when it comes to fruition.
07-01-2012, 10:35 PM
#93
RE: [Deleted]
Again, I said Jet Model Products airplanes and equipment. Last I checked the AMT engines Tom sells are not being sold as Jet Model Products engines, they are sold as AMT engines...
The challenge was to name something in this hobby that was 100% made in the USA. My answer stands firm, JMP airplanes and JMP equipment. If it says JMP it is manufactured in the USA. Not china, not Taiwan, not pakistan.
ORIGINAL: GerKonig
They sell AMT turbines that are not manufactured in the US, plus many many more items not US made either.
Like someone here is using US made radio or servos, or receivers, or batteries, or...
Gerry
ORIGINAL: LGM Graphix
Jet Model Products aircraft and equipment
ORIGINAL: Pepperpete
Name something in this hobby that is 100 percent American besides the arrogant attitude that some (not all) show on here?
Name something in this hobby that is 100 percent American besides the arrogant attitude that some (not all) show on here?
Jet Model Products aircraft and equipment
They sell AMT turbines that are not manufactured in the US, plus many many more items not US made either.
Like someone here is using US made radio or servos, or receivers, or batteries, or...
Gerry
07-01-2012, 11:03 PM
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RE: Hobby King turbine!
Ok that's a lot of reading first thing in the morning.
So let's recap, before anyone has bought or run a HK turbine we
all agree there crap!
07-01-2012, 11:06 PM
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RE: Hobby King turbine!
I think Bill G and Invertmast summed up what I was trying to say pretty well:
"...the type of person to appreciate a turbine is the type of person to be a dedicated and experience builder who has extreme attention to detail. This is quite different than the wave of RTFers out there today. Likely someone will get upset about me making that comparison, but the point is that things like turbines are generally not for weekend "out of the box" warriors..."
and
"...people start complaining about their new "Arf" not having directions on how to do something as simple as aligning the tail section to the fuselage/wing or how to locate the motor on the firewall, serious issues arise.. Now, give this guy the opportunity to purchase a turbine and a jet "arf" from one of the chinese companies (and their lovely directions) and the domino's are quickly stacking against his (and the hobbies) favor in him doing it correctly and safely..."
A low priced turbine from HK will bring turbines to a lot more people. There could be some people out there flying them now who have more money than sense, but there probably aren't many because most people who have money have at least some sense, and there aren't that many people out there with the kind of money that makes them go out and buy a $5000 "ARF Jet" as if it were a $100 "ARF Parkflyer". Make that a $800 "Hobby King ARF Jet" and you're starting to widen the pool a lot and greatly increase the possibility that there will be problems that end up ending the hobby for everyone.
I don't think there's anyone out there who augers in 5 turbine powered RC airplanes in a year and goes out and buys more. But there are a lot of guys out there who go buy a RTF $100-$200 parkflyer and auger it in to the park that they're flying in. Bring the price of those turbine powered planes down to $500, and you'll have a lot more guys thinking "Hey, I've got 4 good landings on that Bixler that I bought, with only 2 tubes of glue I needed to use to fix it so it's almost good as new. Maybe I should challenge myself with one of those turbine thingies. They sure make a lot more noise and go nice and fast." Having the price high enough so MOST people will hesitate enough to have to REALLY want it, and REALLY be sure that they are ready for it and aren't going to crash it, keeps the skill level (flying and building and making sure it's safe to fly) higher than if that barrier is not in place.
"...the type of person to appreciate a turbine is the type of person to be a dedicated and experience builder who has extreme attention to detail. This is quite different than the wave of RTFers out there today. Likely someone will get upset about me making that comparison, but the point is that things like turbines are generally not for weekend "out of the box" warriors..."
and
"...people start complaining about their new "Arf" not having directions on how to do something as simple as aligning the tail section to the fuselage/wing or how to locate the motor on the firewall, serious issues arise.. Now, give this guy the opportunity to purchase a turbine and a jet "arf" from one of the chinese companies (and their lovely directions) and the domino's are quickly stacking against his (and the hobbies) favor in him doing it correctly and safely..."
A low priced turbine from HK will bring turbines to a lot more people. There could be some people out there flying them now who have more money than sense, but there probably aren't many because most people who have money have at least some sense, and there aren't that many people out there with the kind of money that makes them go out and buy a $5000 "ARF Jet" as if it were a $100 "ARF Parkflyer". Make that a $800 "Hobby King ARF Jet" and you're starting to widen the pool a lot and greatly increase the possibility that there will be problems that end up ending the hobby for everyone.
I don't think there's anyone out there who augers in 5 turbine powered RC airplanes in a year and goes out and buys more. But there are a lot of guys out there who go buy a RTF $100-$200 parkflyer and auger it in to the park that they're flying in. Bring the price of those turbine powered planes down to $500, and you'll have a lot more guys thinking "Hey, I've got 4 good landings on that Bixler that I bought, with only 2 tubes of glue I needed to use to fix it so it's almost good as new. Maybe I should challenge myself with one of those turbine thingies. They sure make a lot more noise and go nice and fast." Having the price high enough so MOST people will hesitate enough to have to REALLY want it, and REALLY be sure that they are ready for it and aren't going to crash it, keeps the skill level (flying and building and making sure it's safe to fly) higher than if that barrier is not in place.
ORIGINAL: ira d
I may be misintrepreting what you are saying but it seems what you are saying is that someone that was not born with a silver spoon in their mouth should not have the privilege of owning a turbine rc aircraft. One thing to remember if a poor person buys a turbine and crashes his plane he may not get another one or it could be months before he does, OTOH there are the well to do that can put five or more turbines in the ground in one year and still buy more.
I may be misintrepreting what you are saying but it seems what you are saying is that someone that was not born with a silver spoon in their mouth should not have the privilege of owning a turbine rc aircraft. One thing to remember if a poor person buys a turbine and crashes his plane he may not get another one or it could be months before he does, OTOH there are the well to do that can put five or more turbines in the ground in one year and still buy more.
07-02-2012, 03:01 AM
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RE: Hobby King turbine!
ORIGINAL: downunderdog
I think Bill G and Invertmast summed up what I was trying to say pretty well:
''...the type of person to appreciate a turbine is the type of person to be a dedicated and experience builder who has extreme attention to detail. This is quite different than the wave of RTFers out there today. Likely someone will get upset about me making that comparison, but the point is that things like turbines are generally not for weekend ''out of the box'' warriors...''
and
''...people start complaining about their new ''Arf'' not having directions on how to do something as simple as aligning the tail section to the fuselage/wing or how to locate the motor on the firewall, serious issues arise.. Now, give this guy the opportunity to purchase a turbine and a jet ''arf'' from one of the chinese companies (and their lovely directions) and the domino's are quickly stacking against his (and the hobbies) favor in him doing it correctly and safely...''
A low priced turbine from HK will bring turbines to a lot more people. There could be some people out there flying them now who have more money than sense, but there probably aren't many because most people who have money have at least some sense, and there aren't that many people out there with the kind of money that makes them go out and buy a $5000 ''ARF Jet'' as if it were a $100 ''ARF Parkflyer''. Make that a $800 ''Hobby King ARF Jet'' and you're starting to widen the pool a lot and greatly increase the possibility that there will be problems that end up ending the hobby for everyone.
I don't think there's anyone out there who augers in 5 turbine powered RC airplanes in a year and goes out and buys more. But there are a lot of guys out there who go buy a RTF $100-$200 parkflyer and auger it in to the park that they're flying in. Bring the price of those turbine powered planes down to $500, and you'll have a lot more guys thinking ''Hey, I've got 4 good landings on that Bixler that I bought, with only 2 tubes of glue I needed to use to fix it so it's almost good as new. Maybe I should challenge myself with one of those turbine thingies. They sure make a lot more noise and go nice and fast.'' Having the price high enough so MOST people will hesitate enough to have to REALLY want it, and REALLY be sure that they are ready for it and aren't going to crash it, keeps the skill level (flying and building and making sure it's safe to fly) higher than if that barrier is not in place.
I think Bill G and Invertmast summed up what I was trying to say pretty well:
''...the type of person to appreciate a turbine is the type of person to be a dedicated and experience builder who has extreme attention to detail. This is quite different than the wave of RTFers out there today. Likely someone will get upset about me making that comparison, but the point is that things like turbines are generally not for weekend ''out of the box'' warriors...''
and
''...people start complaining about their new ''Arf'' not having directions on how to do something as simple as aligning the tail section to the fuselage/wing or how to locate the motor on the firewall, serious issues arise.. Now, give this guy the opportunity to purchase a turbine and a jet ''arf'' from one of the chinese companies (and their lovely directions) and the domino's are quickly stacking against his (and the hobbies) favor in him doing it correctly and safely...''
A low priced turbine from HK will bring turbines to a lot more people. There could be some people out there flying them now who have more money than sense, but there probably aren't many because most people who have money have at least some sense, and there aren't that many people out there with the kind of money that makes them go out and buy a $5000 ''ARF Jet'' as if it were a $100 ''ARF Parkflyer''. Make that a $800 ''Hobby King ARF Jet'' and you're starting to widen the pool a lot and greatly increase the possibility that there will be problems that end up ending the hobby for everyone.
I don't think there's anyone out there who augers in 5 turbine powered RC airplanes in a year and goes out and buys more. But there are a lot of guys out there who go buy a RTF $100-$200 parkflyer and auger it in to the park that they're flying in. Bring the price of those turbine powered planes down to $500, and you'll have a lot more guys thinking ''Hey, I've got 4 good landings on that Bixler that I bought, with only 2 tubes of glue I needed to use to fix it so it's almost good as new. Maybe I should challenge myself with one of those turbine thingies. They sure make a lot more noise and go nice and fast.'' Having the price high enough so MOST people will hesitate enough to have to REALLY want it, and REALLY be sure that they are ready for it and aren't going to crash it, keeps the skill level (flying and building and making sure it's safe to fly) higher than if that barrier is not in place.
ORIGINAL: ira d
I may be misintrepreting what you are saying but it seems what you are saying is that someone that was not born with a silver spoon in their mouth should not have the privilege of owning a turbine rc aircraft. One thing to remember if a poor person buys a turbine and crashes his plane he may not get another one or it could be months before he does, OTOH there are the well to do that can put five or more turbines in the ground in one year and still buy more.
I may be misintrepreting what you are saying but it seems what you are saying is that someone that was not born with a silver spoon in their mouth should not have the privilege of owning a turbine rc aircraft. One thing to remember if a poor person buys a turbine and crashes his plane he may not get another one or it could be months before he does, OTOH there are the well to do that can put five or more turbines in the ground in one year and still buy more.
Nothing wrong with competition.
However, If a $400 reliable turbine became available to the masses sadly the chances of seeing one flown illegally at the local park would increase IMO. An issue puts the entire hobby at risk. Bit like making a Hyundai Excel as powerful as a Ferrari. You get the idea.
Not the suppliers fault in any way. Well done HK for making the hobby more affordable for all of us!
Mav
07-02-2012, 03:22 AM
#97
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RE: Hobby King turbine!
As I have said on other threads before, it is not difficult now to get a simple reliable turbine mechanics right, there are only 3 crucial components, compressor NGV and turbine wheel, the rest are easy to make and duplicate with CNC equipment and forming tools.
The compressor can, like many turbine manufacturers used for years (before the new shiny machined versions) be off the shelf turbo compressors, so that only leaves two components, and the thing to do here is, buy them ready made and tested from someone else.
Hobbyking have hinted that major components will be coming from europe, so maybe that is what they have done.
So if they buy in NGV/turbine wheel sets and off the shelf compressor, there is no reason(excuse) for the mechanics of the turbine not to be spot on.
The electronics can be a different matter, I can't understand why they apparently have been delayed the past year getting the software sorted.
I know HK probably have loads of electronic companies making stuff for them and maybe wanted to build their own, but unless you are going to do something different, which again was hinted by the first picture we seen which showed a ECU with integrated LCD screen, (however the ECU on the video is nothing like that and has an external HDT like others) then there is no real point, use something already out there.
This I think is a mistake, would have been much better to have used a reliable and well know ECU like the Xicoy FADEC, and had one area solved straight away, just like Wren, Jet Central, Kingtech and others have done.
Along with having one area sorted in producing your new turbine you would also gain from Gaspers vast knowledge on setting it up.
Years down the road they could have introduced their own if they felt it was better or cheaper produced.
It will be interesting to see, they can do it if they go about it the right way, turbines CAN be produced at a much lower cost as I am sure HK will be thinking big numbers and probably 95% of the customers will never have owned a jet before or ever read this forum.
As already pointed out spares and backup may be an issue, I would be happy with spares availability as getting them serviced wont be an issue somewhere else so long as you can get the bits needed to do the repair/service.
The compressor can, like many turbine manufacturers used for years (before the new shiny machined versions) be off the shelf turbo compressors, so that only leaves two components, and the thing to do here is, buy them ready made and tested from someone else.
Hobbyking have hinted that major components will be coming from europe, so maybe that is what they have done.
So if they buy in NGV/turbine wheel sets and off the shelf compressor, there is no reason(excuse) for the mechanics of the turbine not to be spot on.
The electronics can be a different matter, I can't understand why they apparently have been delayed the past year getting the software sorted.
I know HK probably have loads of electronic companies making stuff for them and maybe wanted to build their own, but unless you are going to do something different, which again was hinted by the first picture we seen which showed a ECU with integrated LCD screen, (however the ECU on the video is nothing like that and has an external HDT like others) then there is no real point, use something already out there.
This I think is a mistake, would have been much better to have used a reliable and well know ECU like the Xicoy FADEC, and had one area solved straight away, just like Wren, Jet Central, Kingtech and others have done.
Along with having one area sorted in producing your new turbine you would also gain from Gaspers vast knowledge on setting it up.
Years down the road they could have introduced their own if they felt it was better or cheaper produced.
It will be interesting to see, they can do it if they go about it the right way, turbines CAN be produced at a much lower cost as I am sure HK will be thinking big numbers and probably 95% of the customers will never have owned a jet before or ever read this forum.
As already pointed out spares and backup may be an issue, I would be happy with spares availability as getting them serviced wont be an issue somewhere else so long as you can get the bits needed to do the repair/service.
07-02-2012, 03:57 AM
#98
RE: Hobby King turbine!
ORIGINAL: Rob2160
I have to agree with this statement.....
Small 450 Helis and foamies are one thing.... a kero sucking turbine is another...
ORIGINAL: topspin
As far as I can see the only people who will buy these motors are the ones who shouldn't even have one. And no liability when they get hurt.
As far as I can see the only people who will buy these motors are the ones who shouldn't even have one. And no liability when they get hurt.
Small 450 Helis and foamies are one thing.... a kero sucking turbine is another...
And how about Cessna new Skycatcher? They are manufactured in china (well, not sold by HK, I grant you that). They will manufacture jet parts now (for Cessna), and actually before manufacturing this turbine, they have been manufacturing turbine parts for an European model turbine manufacturer (unnamed).
Only time will tell how they will service them, and the price they set will determine how many they will sell.
This is a free market economy, as soon as there are enough HK turbines out there, a third party service place will pop up somewhere in the US.
Modellbau sells a reasonable intro jet for what, about $500? One day not too far away you will be able to purchase a $1,000 turbine for that jet. And I see that as a good thing.
Your statement "As fas as I can see only people who will buy these motors are the ones that shouldn't even have one" really says a lot about you, I am sorry! I mean, I woill not qualify the statement, but if this is what you really think, men, I feel sorry for ya'
Gerry
07-02-2012, 03:58 AM
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RE: Hobby King turbine!
Lots of angst over a low priced turbine, but has anyone any idea of price? I personally can't see it being $500-$800 myself. I wouldn't be surprised if these are around JetJoe prices.
What seems to be the major concern is that offering a cheap turbine equals doom and gloom for the hobby because inexperienced modelllers will be reckless. I certainly agree that if this turbine is of poor build quality then there is a high risk of injury from failure, but in this day and age of everyone trying to sue the pants off someone for ridiculous things, I don't think a company can afford that risk so HK will hopefully have done their homework.
I see more people flying jets as a good thing for the hobby, it gives more voice to a small group of modellers and lifts the flying ability of the pilots. The concern that inexperienced modellers will go off and do their own thing is possible, but that's up to club members enforcing the rules, be it AMA and getting your turbine waiver, or MAAA and permit to fly here in AUstralia. Both pretty stringent procedures designed to protect the public and the hobby. If people want to operate outside the rules, they will, price is irrelevant.
How much money you have to spend on this hobby has nothing to do with how well you build your models, maintain them, understand how things work or how well you can operate them. That has to do with your attitude and your personal pride.
You do get what you pay for, but until we know how much we are expected to pay for this new turbine I think it's a bit unfair to bash so hard at the moment. I have my DA's and my DLE's and both have their place. Maybe this turbine might be similar, maybe not.
What seems to be the major concern is that offering a cheap turbine equals doom and gloom for the hobby because inexperienced modelllers will be reckless. I certainly agree that if this turbine is of poor build quality then there is a high risk of injury from failure, but in this day and age of everyone trying to sue the pants off someone for ridiculous things, I don't think a company can afford that risk so HK will hopefully have done their homework.
I see more people flying jets as a good thing for the hobby, it gives more voice to a small group of modellers and lifts the flying ability of the pilots. The concern that inexperienced modellers will go off and do their own thing is possible, but that's up to club members enforcing the rules, be it AMA and getting your turbine waiver, or MAAA and permit to fly here in AUstralia. Both pretty stringent procedures designed to protect the public and the hobby. If people want to operate outside the rules, they will, price is irrelevant.
How much money you have to spend on this hobby has nothing to do with how well you build your models, maintain them, understand how things work or how well you can operate them. That has to do with your attitude and your personal pride.
You do get what you pay for, but until we know how much we are expected to pay for this new turbine I think it's a bit unfair to bash so hard at the moment. I have my DA's and my DLE's and both have their place. Maybe this turbine might be similar, maybe not.
07-02-2012, 04:10 AM
#100
RE: Hobby King turbine!
+ 1
Nothing wrong with competition.
However, If a $400 reliable turbine became available to the masses sadly the chances of seeing one flown illegally at the local park would increase IMO. An issue puts the entire hobby at risk. Bit like making a Hyundai Excel as powerful as a Ferrari. You get the idea.
Not the suppliers fault in any way. Well done HK for making the hobby more affordable for all of us!
Mav
[/quote]
Well, the Chinese are Chinese but not stupid. I think the fear of having a $400 turbine on the market are greatly unfounded:-) Cost and selling price are 2 very different things. Most of the OTC medications you are purchasing (with American brand names on them) are coming from India these days. Did you notice a 80% price drop in the prices you pay? Of course not, the prices did not change. Just profits skyrocketed while you are fleeced...
They will set a lower price than the competition, and the price will be set based on many things, cost not being one of them (because the cost of their product will be low compared with the cost of the competition).
As long as the AMA keeps up the waiver program I see no problem. There are a lot of good RC pilots that might take the plunge. And that will help the hobby.
Gerry