kingaltair

My Feedback: (4)

Ray;

I don't know if you have access to past Model Aviation magazine issues, but I went into a lot of detail about the similarities and differences between VR/CS and SPA in my May 2006 article. Basically, both organizations love vintage aircraft, and both are AMA special interest groups, "sigs". That's largely where the similarity ends. The whole FOCUS of VR/CS and SPA is different.

VR/CS is primarily interested in vintage R/C, back from its very beginings up until around 1970. Everything from rudder only to multi-channel "full house" pattern planes. They are also interested in the old engines, radios, and other equipment. They place a lot of emphasis of the airplane being an authentic replica of the original. Competition is a relatively small part of it since VR/CS holds fly-ins instead of contests. The atmosphere is a lot like your local flying field, but with models of all eras and types, (as long as they're vintage).

SPA on the other hand, is totally focused on competition WITH early vintage pattern planes...the emphasis is on the COMPETITION. The plane is secondary to the competition in that small mods, (emphasis on small), are allowed to improve flying characteristics. SPA is not interested in other parts of early R/C history as an organization, though most members are generally attracted to vintage modeling as a whole. SPA is about flying contests in front of judges, doing non-turnaround maneuvers with basic airplanes.
There are other small differences such as cut-off date for legal airplanes etc, but the major differences are discussed above.

There are several of us who are interested in BOTH, and belong to both organizations. Each has dues that are only $20.00 US, so it's easy to belong to both. Personally, I spend most of my time in SPA because vintage competition, practicing and pursuing the "perfectly done maneuver" is what "floats my boat". Each time I fly, I am usually working on something. To me, that's where the beauty is...to see a maneuver done as it should be.

Hope this helps. It's not really a North/South thing, as both organizations have members all over the country, and overseas.

Duane

RFJ

Duane,

Many thanks for a most interesting post. I no longer subscribe to Model Aviation so regretfully did not see your article but at least I now understand the difference between the SPA and the VR/CS.

Since I live on the other side of the Atlantic attending either group's events is obviously not possible. Proper competitions appeal to me much more than so called fly-ins so the SPA gets my vote on this.

However.....I am also interested in the history of aeromodelling generally and pattern in particular. This would include models, pilots, engines and equipment so the VR/CS scores on this aspect of things.

So, I guess I can genuinely wish both organisations every sucess in their respective endeavours.

Ray

kingaltair

My Feedback: (4)

You are a lot like me....that's why I belong to both. They are both good organizations with good people in them.

You could go to the AMA web site under the magazine and request back issues if you are interested. I think I left a few copies of both the May 2006 issue and July 2007 available for others....I got the rest Writing is not something I do all the time..both articles were "labors or love" that took me weeks/months to get the best I could make them.

BTW- My father was born in Belfast, (pronounced BEL'fost for the rest of you), and my grandparents lived their earlier years there before relocating over here.

Duane

8178

My Feedback: (17)

Duane,

Thank you! That is the very best job I’ve seen to date of explaining SPA. I think there is often a misunderstanding about SPA and what it is all about and you defined it well. I guess that should be expected with all the work you have done to promote the SPA and vintage modeling.

Just to let everyone know, VR/CS is pattern orientated too but like you say they are also focused on keeping the airframe original thus replicating the original look, feel and experience of pattern flying. Keeping with the authentic airframe concept, retracts are allowed if they were on the original plan. No scaling changes are allowed to the airframe, but foam wings can be used, bolts replace rubber bands and some other very minor details. A 35 year sliding window is used for qualifying airframes so each year there are new airframes allowed. VR/CS pattern info can be found on their web site here http://www.vintagercsociety.org/index.html

Free Bird

Hey RCDENT,

This may seem a little petty, but could you go back and edit the title of this thread. Ed's last is not spelled correctly. It should be Kazmirski, not Kazmurski. I think a man's name should spelled correctly. Thanks!!!

FB

kingaltair

My Feedback: (4)

I never even NOTICED that..and I've looked at this thread 100,000 times

RCDENT

My Feedback: (2)

Done. No disrespect intended I assure you! I too am glad to see the plane is headed for a place of honor. The ad photos are a great resource for anyone wanting to build a replica.

Free Bird

RCDENT,

I know that no disrespect was intended, just a simple error. I thank you for your quick action. I too am very glad that the plane is in good hands. I'm really looking forward to seeing this gem somewhere down the line this year. I have a Primus that's about half finished, and I'd like to make it look as close as possible as the original.

FB

Taurus Flyer

Hallo Free Bird,

We are all serious, but may I make a joke?

I am warning you, allways build in the right direction. or did you not show us the pictures of the first one?.

In your message in the threat:"Top Flite Taurus" you wrote:
`I'm about 75% on a Primus/Taurus build. The airframe is built, just need to do final shaping/sanding and complete radio installation.` (message 12/14/2007)

In your last message :
`I have a Primus that's about half finished`

Sometimes we think we are nearly finished with a model and than we still have a long time to go.
For a model it's the same.
Some times it is finished with its job, and then it still has a long way to go even when its retired. Be carefull with "The Taurus"

Succes Free Bird

Cees

Free Bird

Hey Taurus Flyer, nice catch! After looking at it last week, 75% was a bit optimistic, hence the 50%. Now that the original Taurus may be available to view, it has breathed new life into the project.

FB

RFJ

It's a well known phenomenon that the last 25% of a model build takes 75% of the time!!

Ray

Taurus Flyer

Hey Free Bird,


Why did not you give the following answer:

"Yes, that's right TF but now it's possible to give it the right colours and sceme, so I am still building in the right direction but will take a longer way!"
"This is because of the orginal Taurus has a REFF of 50 %, and that was extremely high in it's periode!"

{(75+[3x25])-(75+25)}=50%+? (Ray's Extra Finishing Factor)

Cees

RCDENT

My Feedback: (2)

For any who missed the listing, here are the photos plus an extra from my own "digital archives". The fact that this plane survived what must have been literally thousands of flights with the radio equipment of the day, amazes me! A real tribute to the man and his skills.

WEDJ

I think at some point, this plane was re-finished, or Ed made more than one. If you look at the MAN cover, the name "Taurus" is clearly visible on the right nose section. In the Ebay photos, it is not there.

I do not doubt that it is an Ed K. original, I just wonder about it being the same as the magazine cover. Most serious competitors had at least one back up plane.

Taurus Flyer

WEDJ

In my opinion the name Taurus was there, only on the right side, but disappeared. You can see the dark dash on the right side is shorter then on the left side!
Aileron hangings, striping and characters on the wing, they are different.

I also find differences with the kit, names on both sides, but also the dash on the fin, dark. Orginal this dash is red.

But for me one question rests, is it black or marine bleu, the dark color on the orginal?????

Cees

rcacro

Ed did build more than one airframe at a time. I was in his workshop for a meeting and seen several airframes under construction.

John W.

Hueydriver

This may seem somewhat melodramatic, but.....

I have at least 500 flights on an original Taurus that I rebuilt and another 75-odd on a Jeff Petroski revival of same in my logbook. The Taurus, as a design, fits in with the Nobler, Gollywock, Thermic 50 or Zipper in that it had the proper moments and "looks like it will fly great" proportions that come along every few decades. As a model, it equals with the status of a Spitfire......cannot be duplicated, but forever remembered. The thick section and graceful fuselage make for dramatic loops and the swept fin (as my first R/C instructor, Bob Hansen told me) kept the nose up in the reed radio induced turns. A Taurus in flight is a thing of beauty.

Many thanks to those who bid on the auction to make the machine accessible for generations to come.

Kirk

neilrether

[link]http://www.rchalloffame.org/Video/1963Internats/files/page314-1014-pop.html[/link]

Check out this link to a video of the 1963 International competition. You'll see some video of Mr. Kazmirski and his Taurus.

Best Wishes,
Neil

Free Bird

How do you make the clip play? I could only watch it in fast forward or frame-by-frame. What I could see, was very cool. Seeing Kazmirski flying the Taurus, a rare treat indeed. Who can name some of the other USA pilots? I saw Dr. Ralph Brooke.

FB

RFJ

All you ever wanted to know about the 1963 World Champs!!! Note that almost half the competitors flew a Taurus - shows what an important and influential design it was.

Ray

neilrether

I'm pretty sure you need the Quick Time Plugin from Apple in order to play the clip. Click the play button and it may take a bit to start.

Neil

Taurus Flyer

Hello Free Bird

Double klick the link and wait for a multicoulored square. Then onces klick on the arrow to play left-under and wait

Cees

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Not to get too far OT, but who's familiar with Brooke's Amanusa? Was it ever published?

Thanks,
David

8178

My Feedback: (17)

That is the first picture I’ve see of it. After wining in 63 he won again in 65 flying the Crusader.

RFJ

Don't get me started on the Amanusa. Some years ago I researched it with a view to building a replica but information was very difficult to obtain. I finally managed to get an outline 3-view but did not proceed with the project. If anyone has any more details or better photographs I would be very interested. As far as I know it was never published as a magazine plan/construction article.

I got the impression that it was essentially a Taurus wing/tailplane and a very basic fibreglass fuselage. It was constructed in a hurry when Ralph crashed the model he originally intended to fly. His reserve model at the event was called the Centurion but this was not used due to the windy conditions,

Ray