capnduane

World Models arfs are covered in toughlon, which is an exact match or very close to the covering on the Z. AirBorne models sells it. They are in Hong Kong and Livermore Ca, USA. I have a roll of the yellow they use for their Cub and it looks to be the same color as the Z covering. Good luck!

PSJDBF

Cheers For the reply,
I have ordered some covering from ebay just the standard yellow so hopefully it is a close enough match,will let you know.
As I Have to do the wing tip on one side I'm going to strip the covering & add some block balsa to the tip then fit a plastic skid to protect the covering on the tips.
Not scale but you will hardly notice it, this is due to the many cross wind landings I have had to do lately which ussaully ends in one wing dragging, this time ending in a nose over !![:@].

Thanks again.
Steff.

capnduane

I put strips of yellow duct tape on the wing tips where they scrape, don't know why they made the gear so narrow on the Z, the scale location would have been wider, and it would help to eliminate the wing dragging on the runway!

capnduane

Hey, Steff, I was thinking, if your covering you ordered is not to your liking, I could slip some in a envelope and mail it to you. No problemo.... Duane

PSJDBF

Hey Duane thanks for the kind offer, will see what turns up .
It's funny you say you used duct tape on your wing tips as I did the same thing using a yellow PVC tape the colour was very close I then sealed it with gloss clear coat.
I now have to repair the tail & rudder plus there is some movement on one wing tip so thought Seem I'm going to have to open up that tip I might as well try & tidy her up a bit.
Shes been an excelent model to date with heaps of flights on her, I,m thinking of following your lead & doing the wing & tail brace wires at the same time.
Cheers Steff.

capnduane

If I ever need to rebuild my wings, I would really like to scale up the wingtip outline, do barn door ailerons, and move the gear out to a scalelike position. Hopefully these mods won't mess up the fine flying characteristics this Z has. I used chopsticks for the lower stab bracing, barbeque skewers for the upper stab bracing and javelin. White glue dots for the wing fairing rivets and good old fine line magic marker for the panel lines around the fuse! Top of a push pin for the gas cap. Been looking for a better pilot as well.

PSJDBF

Thanks to Duane for supplying some of his covering, I have finally made a start on the repairs.
The fuse is finished & covered & one wing tip stripped repaired & a skid attached to protect it.
One wing tip to go.
Hope you all had a great Christmas.
Thanks again Duane.
Steff.

PSJDBF

Well repairs are all finished & she's ready to go again..hopefully the wing tip skids will work & protect my reinforced tips.
All the best Steff.

capnduane

Good job, Steff, looks like you have your Z ready to fly again. The wing tip skids should help alot. I have not flown mine since the last contest, been busy with my Corsair and AT6. Glad I was able to help you out, my pleasure! Duane

Oberst

Any further updates on this aircraft? I'm about to order this aircraft today myself and "Bash it" to be more scale. The first thing I'm want to do is change out that tail wheel out for a scale wood tail skid. It will help with slowing the plane down on landing, also it will help keep the plane from tipping as easily because it won't react so quickly to the rudder responses on the ground. Anyone attempt to do this yet?

Also I'd like to know how the DuBro 4.5" pnumatic tires work on this thing and does it actually cut down the bounce? Also I'd like to know if you guys think the Saito FA150GK should be enough engine for this. I noticed everyone has a big honking engine in this plane and I'm wondering if the weight is a critical factor on why the struts want to twist on a not so nice landing. It's a thought to ponder on and was wondering what you guys think?

I read the RCU review on this plane and I'm also taking the advice to put a 24 oz. glow tank in it and 2-56 x 48" pushrods from Du-Bro. The Saito is a fuel hog and I'd like to have more than 4 minutes flying time.

I don't know what is wrong with me, I'm very attracted to difficult planes to fly. ( attracted like a bug flying near a bug zapper) Maybe it's because they give me a challange and keeps me on my toes. I don't know, like my DR1 isn't difficult enough for me.

Once I get my plane in a few weeks I'll start my build thread in here. I was going to build a kit instead, but when I saw that Gee Bee I said to myself- darn it, just when I was going to quit the ARF scene.


Pete

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Bump test

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

It bounced

capnduane

Oberst, just saw your post, my computer has been down for a while.... I think your Saito 150 will fly the Z just fine, but you will probably need nose weight to balance out. My Z balanced perfect with the 30cc gas and battery and ignition up front in the cowl. Over all weight on mine is 11 3/4 lbs. Make sure you have plenty of clearance for the wheels in the pants, esp in the back. Your tailskid idea sounds good, I don't like the looks of the tail wheel anyhow. Good luck with your bird. Thanks for the pics, a couple of them I haven't seen before. Duane

Oberst

Must be the stock tires.



Hi Duane,

Yes I sent tailskid a PM a few days back and he wrote back telling me the same thing. I decided to order everything from my local hobby shop so I can help keep him in business, and just save my free shipping code for a rainy day. Besides, I don't pay shipping through the LHS anyway and he gives me enough discounts to keep the sales tax low. Here's what I ordered, LHS said they would order it by Monday.

Horizon Hobby


SEA3525 Seagull Geebee- $319.99 ordered 1
HAN3025 Remote Glow - $7.99 ordered 1
SAI120S30 Prop Nut - $21.56 ordered 1
HANU884 Yellow Ultracote- $15.99 ordered 1
HANU874 Black Ultracote - $15.99 ordered 1
HANU80640 1/8 Cub Yellow trim tape - $10.06 ordered 1
HANU80440 1/8 Black Trim tape Order -$10.06 ordered 1

Tower Hobbies

LXD767 Dubro big inflatable wheels- $19.95 order 1
LXD723 Dubro 24oz glow tank - $ 7.19 Order 1
LXFV30 Sullivan Flying Wires Bracing Kit - $23.79 order 2.
LXPZJ0 William Brothers Pilot Bust Kit Standard - $5.99 Order 1.
LM1851 18x8 Xoar beechwood propeller - $31.40 Order 1


Store Stock
LXEMG1 2-56 x 48" pushrods from Du-Bro.

Total price around $489.96 w/o tax and push rods

I'm broke

So what is your CG people? From, reading all the posts, you think it's about 5mm forward of the recommended CG? One guy wrote he went 10mm, but that seems a little much. But that's only my opinion.

Here's a few pics in my collection below.


Pete

capnduane

Hi Oberst, man you are going at this project full blast! Can't wait to see your Z scaled out. Thanks for the pics, I can see there are lots more scale details that I can attempt. I have used the CG as shown on the plans. When balanced my nose is slightly down. This model flys great, and landings are good. It does like to dance around a bit on the roll out, but is controlable. Spacing the landing gear wider apart as per the full size, will help here i think? Duane

Oberst

Yes Duane, I tend to over do things. I'm a big fan of the Gee Bees, most Golden age, WWI and WWII German aircraft. I don't know if you've seen my work, but I really like "bashing" ARFs and kits and making details from scratch. Usually I go all out on my RC aircraft when it comes to scaling things out. I don't plan on over doing it with this Gee Bee Z however unless I crash it, then what I usually will do is strip it down to it's bare bones and modify everything to be more accurate to scale. (hence the term bash)

I won't or rather don't, plan on doing it for quite a while, but one day I'll make the barn door ailerons and a few other things scale. But for now, I can really make nice scale details as is without tearing the whole plane apart. I told my wife I ordered this plane and and she freaked when I told her the wingspan is 70 inches!

I only own a old Ford Escort and will need to borrow my father-in-laws truck with cap to get this plane home! I doubt I could fit the box in the car trunk. [:@]

All my planes are 1/5 scale, I knew over time that I was eventually going to move up to 1/4 scale and have less room in the house to boot. For those who hasn't seen my work you can read read and see it here:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10038870/tm.htm

My planes will be in the next issue of MA, not sure what page because I lost Dave Mathewsons email describing what page it would be on. But if you guys see a black Fokker DR1 and Hanger 9 Fokker DVII together in the Focal Point section, you know it's my birds.

Here is some interesting info I got online today about the Gee Bee Z for those who are thinking of adding details to this good looking plane. I can see that quite a few full scale replicas are wrong in some of the details, just from what I read from this 1938 document. See attatchment below.


Pete

capnduane

Great, Oberst! looking foreward to seeing your birds in MA. I have a few WW1 models also. Lets see... Fokker DVIII 1/4 scratch built with G 23, Balsa USA 1/4 DVIII w/ G26I, rebuilt from a crash, given to me by a good friend. Balsa USA Moraine Saulnier 1/3 with a Kioritz 42. 1/4 Balsa USA Fokker DR1 built last year and setting in the living room waiting for covering and paint...... Then theres the cubs, and the warbirds, its a SICKNESS, I TELL YA! Got inspired by your great pics today, and made up the gas gauge for my Z out of a #3 pencil, a piece of 1/4in dowel and a straight pin! Turned out pretty good, if I say so myself! later, Duane O ya forgot, my Moraine is pictured in the current Balsa USA catalogue.

Oberst

Nice job on the gas gauge and the famous gas cap! It's still not known- I don't think, that the gas cap had anything to do with Lowell Bayles death during the speed record test. To me it looks as if he broke a spar and the right wing folded. A few days or so prior to the attempted speed record, he overshot the runway and cartwheeled damaging the right wing. I suspect that the right wing was already damaged or weakened by the time his last speed attempt was done. His last pass was clocked at 300mph!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KTyYVnSyq4[/youtube]


I was going to build the BUSA Fokker DVIII and decided to put it off for this Gee Bee Z. I'm on a tight budget and I would have been way off if I were to build it and "Bash" it the way I would have wanted. Besides, the largest engine in my collection is the brand new Saito FA150GK for now. My other engines are a 1983 O.S.FS 120 (before Surpass), FS91 II Surpass, 46Max and a Supertigre 51. All too small for another 1/4 scale except for the O.S.FS1.20, it would be good in a 1/4 scale Eindecker, Taube or Cub.

Wow Duane, I bet you knocked over a few lamps in your home before, where do you store them all? Me, I have to hang them up for winter storage.



My theory is we can not ever have enough planes until the wife starts to gripe. [&:] Even then, we have ways of influencing her that we should get just one more.


Pete

capnduane

I think the larger engine they fitted for the speed record atempts was part of the problem also. Sadly, the Z won everything it entered with the Wasp Jr motor, they had to put the 750hp Wasp motor in and go faster.... I read somewhere that the wing at higher speeds had a flutter problem. You can see that the right wing outboard of the bracing wires breaks off. Sad end for a magnificent craft and brave pilot, Lowell Bayles. The replica Z that Bill Turner built and the R2 flown by Delmar Benjamin show that the Gee Bees were good designs for their day.

Oberst

So true. And yes with that more powerful Wasp engine it was reported they did have that flutter problem. I read somewhere that when the Granville Brothers got the engine, Lowell Bayles won the coin toss on who was going to get it for their Gee Bee.


I read somewhere that the replica Gee Bees was a very good aircraft and did aerobatics quite well. But also I have to be truthful and report that the materials that were used on the replicas were far more better than what was available in the 1920's-30's.

There is a VHS video called, " Those incredible Gee Bees." I highly recommend it to any Gee Bee fanatics out there, I know I plan on getting it.

But any high preformance aircraft, no matter the make and model can be unforgiving if someone isn't prepared for it. It's very true that any plane that isn't set up properly can be a nightmare to operate. It doesn't matter if we're talking about full sized aircraft, or your basic RC aircraft. Even the full sized homebuilt aircraft, the builder must have the CG and setup correct.

Quite a few did die flying the Gee Bee from what I investigated, the R1, R2, including the Y and Z model. But don't forget, the Gee Bee aircraft was flown to compete- and many were pushed to the envelope when it came to speed. Gee Bees were highly experimental and the Granville Brothers were always designing and trying new experiments to have that cutting edge when it came to holding records.

The safety concerns weren't like they are today, so accidents and deaths occured more often back then. That is why we have these strict rules today in the FAA. (The agency was called something else in the late 20's to the late 40's) But in the 1958 the name was changed to what we know it as today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal...Administration


I'm enjoying this topic, I love the Gee Bee history and the Golden age of aviation.


Pete

Oberst

I found a couple more pictures to upload. I wrote a email to one of the museums yesterday that has a more accurate replica of the Gee Bee Z, and I asked them what type of props were used on the Gee Bee Z. I suspect for a while it was wood then they switched to fixed metal Hamilton Props? Also I asked them any info in the construction of the Z. In some pictures I can't tell if it was wire cables or metal rods that were used on the horizontal and vertical stabilizer? Hopefully they will give me a brief answer out of their busy schedule.


Yesterday I called my LHS and he said he didn't get my order, the computers were down and can't get to his email, so he took my big order over the phone. He said he'll order it today and I'll have it all there by Friday. I'll pick it up either Saturday or the following Monday at the latest.


Pete

capnduane

Pete, great pics, thank you for posting them. The last one where the mechanic is fueling the Z is very interesting. Shows the larger cowl well. The fuel guage seems to have been changed/moved, and is missing in some of the other pics also. If one could travel back in time, and go over to Bayles, (he's standing with two other fellows just behind the Z in the last pic) And say, "dude, don't do it"........ He'd look at you like you were a crazy man and jump in and do 300! I don't think you could have talked him out of his goal. Or maybe just tell that guy fueling the Z, HEY, make sure that gas cap is on tight!

MercerAUST

It is a funny looking plane in that, with the pilot in, the plane seems quite large and somewhat out of proportion. It is only with someone standing beside the plane that you relaise how tiny it is (it is really just an engine with minimal concessions for the pilot and the laws of physics). You can only think how brave the pilots where - it looks like a death trap to me!

G3836P

capnduane
Do you have a accurate measurement on the main gear track? As near as I can figure it should be about 18". What are your thoughts?
I'm on the road right now, so I can't reasure it to see what it is right now.
Glenn

G3836P

Correction that should be "measure"